Jeff's Lunchbreak

I started reading your blog because Î'm into gyros ... and have followed the development of the CC almost all along.

Aha! So that's who you are. I saw a couple previous comments of yours, and wondered if you were another Alex that I already knew, or if you were somebody I'd never met personally. Now I know.

Although religion plays a major role in society, and thus belief influences us all, I actually think it counterproductive to discuss the existance of gods... So the result must be: live your life and worry about god whe you are dead.

I agree with you to an extent. That's about the point I'm at now. I doubt there's a god, but then again, there just might be. But, I'm sure (well, about as sure as I am about anything) that this life is real. So, instead of getting all wrapped up wondering about which religion might be right, I'll just do my best to be a good person and enjoy this life. And when I die if there does happen to be a god and we do have an afterlife, well, like you said, that'll be something to worry about then. And you always have to consider, that maybe there isn't an afterlife. Perhaps this life really is all that we get. And in that case, it makes this life all the more precious. And, it makes you realize that people who are living in horrible conditions right now (third world countries, starving children, etc.) might not get a second chance at a better existence, so we really need to do our best to help those people now.

On the other hand, we've seen what extreme religious faith can do. Look at al Quaeda in the Middle East, abortion clinic bombers in the west, the Protestant/Catholic violence in Northern Ireland, the discrimination against homosexuals & bisexuals. I'm not saying that those problems are solely caused by religion, but getting those people to question their basic foundations for why they're doing what they're doing might not be such a bad thing.

Plus, there always the desire to know "The Truth." I mean, what does it really matter to us here on Earth, whether the universe began expanding 14 billion years ago, or whether Lucy was our direct ancestor, or even whether the Earth is round or flat. It really doesn't make a big difference, except for our curiosity, to know why things are the way they are. I wrote about this in a previous entry (Knowledge for Knowledge's Sake), so I'll just quote one sentence, "In the same way that some people may find beauty in a painting, others can find beauty in a deeper understanding of the mysteries of our universe." So, that's the other reason I wonder so much about whether or not there's a god.

This is where being Christian comes in handy: all your sins have been paid for by Jesus with his death.

I don't want to attack what you're saying, because everything you've written seems very sensible, so just consider this a polite discussion. But doesn't that seem a bit like Pascal's Wager? The main problem I have with that, is there are so many mutually exclusive religions, all of them promising a nice afterlife if you follow them, why pick Christianity in particular?

In a nutshell; to me it seems more important to be a good person than to be an ardent believer.

I agree completely. If only more people thought that way.

Although you call yourself an atheist, I see you actually more as an agnostic. As an atheist you'd BE positive there is NO god, which you don't do.

The funny thing about words, is that they only mean what people think they mean. So, that's why I spelled out my position, instead of just saying I was an atheist. Really, the atheist/agnostic distinction seems pretty minor to me, so I don't get worked up about it, but I prefer to call myself an atheist. Let me explain. The more I read about this as I was going through my "deconversion," the more I saw that the people that described themselves as atheists weren't positive. In fact, in the U.S. at least, where most atheists were raised as Christians, and only became atheists after intense self reflection, most atheists seem to realize that they might be wrong about anything, not just the question of gods. So, their worldview is based on differing levels of certainty. You're never really absolutely certain about anything. It's not that there isn't an objective reality, but you realize your limitations in studying the universe and trying to determine that reality. In practice, there are things of which you're sure enough, that you don't really question them except in a philosophical sense - like the old question recently made popular by the Matrix movies, of whether everything is just an illusion. So, that's why I prefer the term atheist. I'm not positive, but my gut feel is that there isn't a god. But just show me some good evidence, and I could be swayed.

Maybe a better term would be "freethinker." In fact, that's what I'd really like to see - not to label and group ourselves based on whether we think there might be a divine power or not. Our understanding of the universe is bound to change. What we consider to be facts now might not be so clearcut in the future (consider what Einstein did to physics). So, while we'll always strive to get the facts right, the important thing is to get people thinking for themselves. Don't accept anyone's word as gospel without doing a little research and demanding some evidence. It doesn't really matter at all to me if people believe in a god or gods, as long as they came to that view based on sound reasoning, and not just accepting it as fact because someone told them so at Sunday school. And we should always be ready to admit that we might be wrong.

Whew. This reply might be longer than the original post. Anway, Alex, thanks for your comment. It's nice to know that somebody reads this blog, and I always enjoy constructive discussions.